Curse

Wrath of m0o · Dec 06, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

/not signed
plat/ecto/armbraces

Nothing wrong with current system, convert plat into stackable ecto or armbraces. Problem solved.

gremlin · Dec 06, 2010, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o

/not signed
plat/ecto/armbraces

Nothing wrong with current system, convert plat into stackable ecto or armbraces. Problem solved.

Why do people keep saying there is no problem with the current system.
With the greatest respect and no insult intended but your dreaming.

Please explain to me why every player that wishes to buy high end items must either buy ectos ambraces from other players or spend valuable game time farming them before they can complete a trade.

*lemming* · Dec 06, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Why do people keep saying there is no problem with the current system.
With the greatest respect and no insult intended but your dreaming.

Please explain to me why every player that wishes to buy high end items must either buy ectos ambraces from other players or spend valuable game time farming them before they can complete a trade.

How is that different from any real-life currency?

So many people in support of this suggestion have been implying that they want to see people punished for accumulating wealth. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

gremlin · Dec 06, 2010, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

How is that different from any real-life currency?

So many people in support of this suggestion have been implying that they want to see people punished for accumulating wealth. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

Then I shall explain.
I do not go along with the argument that anyone should be punished or lose out if the system was changed.
But it is commonly thought that some mega rich players want to preserve the current system for their own ends.

Why should the system change.

Anything you do in the game pretty much gives you gold this is automatically changed into platinum and gold as your wealth increases.
Under the current system there is a limit on how much platinum a player can spend on any one transaction and it is a bad idea for buyer or seller to pay in stages for items over the this limit as it can lead to scamming by either party.

So player must join the throng of ecto or similar collectors to enable them to make large purchases.
Some player have limited time to play the game forcing players to spend this time doing the very boring exercise of farming for ectos "however easy or difficult this is.
Alternatively they can buy ectos of other players and then hang on to these in case there is an item they want from some future player.

This system is not as flexible as gold and platinum you have a part currency part barter system and changing ectos for gold when you need to buy from traders and have run low on platinum or changing platinum back to ectos to buy off players.

The fact that a lot of players have bought into the ecto market and might lost out if it was changed should not be a reason not to change it.

Besides they could increase the cap or add another coin of a higher value to Platinum while at the same time freezing the value of ectos at the current price for a time to enable players to dump their ectos if they wish and start using coins.

Sethellington · Dec 06, 2010, 03:06 PM // 15:06

/signed

we really need this...

Ewon · Dec 06, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

I do not go along with the argument that anyone should be punished or lose out if the system was changed.
But it is commonly thought that some mega rich players want to preserve the current system for their own ends.

The fact that a lot of players have bought into the ecto market and might lost out if it was changed should not be a reason not to change it.

You're not saying people should loose money, but you don;t think it's a good reason for the system to change?

Actually, suddenly changing the system that has been in place for years, causing lots of players to loose money, is a perfect reason not to change the system in place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

So player must join the throng of ecto or similar collectors to enable them to make large purchases.
Some player have limited time to play the game forcing players to spend this time doing the very boring exercise of farming for ectos "however easy or difficult this is.
Alternatively they can buy ectos of other players and then hang on to these in case there is an item they want from some future player.

Even if you removed ectos from the market, you would still need to farm all that gold. The item you are going for would just have a gold value instead. The items that cost ectos aren't going to going down in value, the ectos are what would go down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Besides they could increase the cap or add another coin of a higher value to Platinum while at the same time freezing the value of ectos at the current price for a time to enable players to dump their ectos if they wish and start using coins.

Do you honestly think Anet would put a freeze on ectos if they did change teh system? It would never happen, but I don't think they would change the system as this point anyway. Yes, the current system is flawed, but changing it at this point would be drastic. If a pure gold system was in place from the beginning, that would have been great. I agree, it would have been much better, just not 5 years into the game.

NerfHerder · Dec 06, 2010, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

How is that different from any real-life currency?

So many people in support of this suggestion have been implying that they want to see people punished for accumulating wealth. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

In real life, your bank doesnt have a limit on how much money you can hold. At least mine doesnt.

Most of us that have accumulated wealth in the game are already being punished. Your being forced to invest and trade in an unstable commodity. Sure its great when ecto value rises, but what about when it falls?

Your worth should not be dependent on what the trader says a rare item is worth. You shouldnt have to watch ecto prices like a stock ticker when your trading. And no one should have to invest into a trade item of variable worth, just because they reach thier gold limit.

Not to mention, ectos were never intended to be a form of trade(unless someone can prove otherwise), so it shouldnt matter if thier value changes. Thats the risk you took when you couldnt hold or trade more gold. I know its a risk because I have a couple stacks of ectos as well as nearly maxed my gold limit in my bank and most of my characters. It makes it a real hassle, even when I'm trading for just gold. I reach my limit, then I have to go buy more ectos. At least I'm willing to admit the gold system should change as the game progresses(like skills and content does). If you dont want this change because you have money invested in ectos/whatever, either your being selfish, or your not seeing the bigger picture. It might be rough at first, maybe worse than how HoM effected the economy. But, in the end, a change like whats in the OP would be better for everyone.

gremlin · Dec 06, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewon

You're not saying people should loose money, but you don;t think it's a good reason for the system to change?

Actually, suddenly changing the system that has been in place for years, causing lots of players to loose money, is a perfect reason not to change the system in place.

Even if you removed ectos from the market, you would still need to farm all that gold. The item you are going for would just have a gold value instead. The items that cost ectos aren't going to going down in value, the ectos are what would go down.

Do you honestly think Anet would put a freeze on ectos if they did change teh system? It would never happen, but I don't think they would change the system as this point anyway. Yes, the current system is flawed, but changing it at this point would be drastic. If a pure gold system was in place from the beginning, that would have been great. I agree, it would have been much better, just not 5 years into the game.

1 changing a flawed system is reason enough to change if damage to innocent parties can be removed or minimised.

2 you farm gold by playing the game you farm ectos by not playing the game, also many players have the gold, the game just prevents them from using it.

3 Its up to anet to freeze the price or not I simply suggest it as a way to allow a change without hurting people.
Freezing prices when they announce the change and giving a cut off date when the freeze would end could be a way to minimise any loss.

Mac_Eanruig · Dec 06, 2010, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Yes lets help out our freinds in Asia who sit in internet cafe's all day long
selling gold over the internet, hacking accounts, and boting all over Tyria.

/not signed.

NerfHerder · Dec 07, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac_Eanruig

Yes lets help out our freinds in Asia who sit in internet cafe's all day long
selling gold over the internet, hacking accounts, and boting all over Tyria.

/not signed.

That is an entirely seperate issue.

yitjuan · Dec 07, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac_Eanruig

Yes lets help out our freinds in Asia who sit in internet cafe's all day long
selling gold over the internet, hacking accounts, and boting all over Tyria.

/not signed.

i dont see how changing the gold cap or preserving it will affect gold farmers.

Necrin Blaed · Dec 08, 2010, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I like how we have a fluctuating currency (ectos). It's kinda like an ecto standard (instead of a gold standard). Makes the game more interesting IMO.

Lord Mip · Dec 08, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Giving fluctuating ecto prices as an argument is silly anyway. Money's worth also fluctuates because of inflation. You just can't express it in money so people don't see it.

newbie_of_doom · Dec 09, 2010, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Giving fluctuating ecto prices as an argument is silly anyway. Money's worth also fluctuates because of inflation. You just can't express it in money so people don't see it.

QFT

Also, why does no one see that the gold cap is an excellent way to prevent inflation.
It's an amazing gold sink that people buy ectos from a trader.
Only for this reason, I would feel that the current system should stay. Besides, arguments of flushing away several millions on a lot players are solid. Especially while people are racing to the HoM.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like having to buy ectos because I have a million gold once more, but I don't really mind, especially because I know the consequences of their existence as a currency.

As for comparing this to real-life. You cannot really hold as much money as you want in a bank. You don't get interest over culcumulative money after you pass a certain absolute value.

fowlero · Dec 09, 2010, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Just seems completely unnecessary to me.

People have made done with ecto/armbrace/zkeys or whatever for years since the game was out and it's brought an interesting dynamic to the in game currency.

It encourages people to trade between players rather than sit on their money which is in no way a bad thing. Plus to those agreeing to this as a good idea who are sat on stacks of ecto's, their price is going to plummit soon as people don't have to use them for 100k+ trades.

Much rather see their time spent on something new and/or useful.

NerfHerder · Dec 09, 2010, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

QFT

Also, why does no one see that the gold cap is an excellent way to prevent inflation.
It's an amazing gold sink that people buy ectos from a trader.
Only for this reason, I would feel that the current system should stay. Besides, arguments of flushing away several millions on a lot players are solid. Especially while people are racing to the HoM.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like having to buy ectos because I have a million gold once more, but I don't really mind, especially because I know the consequences of their existence as a currency.

As for comparing this to real-life. You cannot really hold as much money as you want in a bank. You don't get interest over culcumulative money after you pass a certain absolute value.

What consequences? We all take a risk when we buy ectos/armbraces/zkeys. They are not forms of currency. So you cant complain if thier value changes. Armbraces are a perfect example of this. Armbraces are worth half what they use to be. Did the market collapse? No. Did everyone who invested in them lose alot of money? Yeah. Did we get over it? Absolutely. If the gold cap was increased, ectos might lose about half thier value. Big deal. Its thier fault for investing in ectos in the first place. There is no guarantee ectos are set at a fixed rate. If the trading/bank cap were increased, the economy would stabalize in a month or so, and we would have a better trading system for it.

GW has been around for over 5 years. Thats a long time for players to accumulate wealth. As skills and content change with the game, the developers should change the economy to accomodate it as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

People have made done with ecto/armbrace/zkeys or whatever for years since the game was out and it's brought an interesting dynamic to the in game currency.

Oh yeah, sitting in an outpost for hours trying to get a good deal from players that are always trying to rip you off. Its about as interesting a dynamic as watching paint dry. I would rather play the game than sit in an outpost and waste my time watching grass grow.

Lanier · Dec 09, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Oh yeah, sitting in an outpost for hours trying to get a good deal from players that are always trying to rip you off. Its about as interesting a dynamic as watching paint dry. I would rather play the game than sit in an outpost and waste my time watching grass grow.

Then why do you do it?

Why does anyone do it? I dont understand the appeal of having over a million k. If you're going to get that much money, why arnt you spending it? If you arn't spending it, why would you bother getting that much money? I mean there are plenty of things to buy in-game (for example, now that I have all the armors I want, i blow all of my money on lockpicks).

As for the original suggestion, I think there are far more important things that anet should be working on (skill balances and 7 hero teams).

newbie_of_doom · Dec 09, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

What consequences? We all take a risk when we buy ectos/armbraces/zkeys. They are not forms of currency. So you cant complain if thier value changes. Armbraces are a perfect example of this. Armbraces are worth half what they use to be. Did the market collapse? No. Did everyone who invested in them lose alot of money? Yeah. Did we get over it? Absolutely. If the gold cap was increased, ectos might lose about half thier value. Big deal. Its thier fault for investing in ectos in the first place. There is no guarantee ectos are set at a fixed rate. If the trading/bank cap were increased, the economy would stabalize in a month or so, and we would have a better trading system for it.

GW has been around for over 5 years. Thats a long time for players to accumulate wealth. As skills and content change with the game, the developers should change the economy to accomodate it as well.

I have not at all implied that anyone has any right to complain about a change in the value of these items. Nor have I implied that for ambraces specifically.
You ask with consequences, as trivial as this matter may be, let me point it out. O wait, you actually have yourself: "If the gold cap was increased, ectos might lose about half thier value. Big deal. Its thier fault for investing in ectos in the first place."

You are contradicting yourself. You know they have to buy ectos because they have to store money, yet you say it is entirely their own doing.
Then you say, the developers should change the economy to accomodate it as well. Obviously, you have not read my post very well, or at least you have failed to understand it. While I consider the change in the value of ectos to be harmful, this is not what I based my conclusion on. I merely stated that the gold cap is a good way to avoid inflation, and that that is why I, personally, want to keep it.
My conclusion is based entirely on this argument, yet you fail to adress it.

Your conclusion is based on the argument that the economy will finally stabillise and that you are of the implicent opinion that buying ectos is too much trouble or something of the sort. You have based this on absolutely nothing. Fact is, that there will probably be a large amount of inflation if the gold cap were to be removed. Not only because the gold sink of trading ectos would be removed, but also because of psychology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Then why do you do it?

Why does anyone do it? I dont understand the appeal of having over a million k. If you're going to get that much money, why arnt you spending it? If you arn't spending it, why would you bother getting that much money? I mean there are plenty of things to buy in-game (for example, now that I have all the armors I want, i blow all of my money on lockpicks).

As for the original suggestion, I think there are far more important things that anet should be working on (skill balances and 7 hero teams).

Because buying things is hard. I have had my thread open for years and I'm not going to bother with Spammadan.
Also, just to point it out, I myself do not think that it is hard to buy ectos.
And, please, stop using the argument that Anet has better things to do. It does not matter in essence.

*lemming* · Dec 09, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

We all take a risk when we buy ectos/armbraces/zkeys. They are not forms of currency.

Is there a reason you're saying this, or are you just inserting a claim and hoping it doesn't get questioned?

NerfHerder · Dec 09, 2010, 08:54 PM // 20:54

It's getting to the point where people dont want gold at all anymore, even for items less than 100k. There is something wrong with that picture.

I bought the rest of minis I needed for my HoM today. Even though the cost was well under 100k, I couldnt find anyone that would take gold, they all wanted ectos. So I bought some more ectos because I was reaching my gold limit anyway. I found a good price for ectos, and asked the guy if he had anymore to sell. He said "yeah, but I need to buy some stuff first because I cant hold anymore gold." Sweet Irony. This was my own personal experience, but I know similar situations must happen all the time. It's utterly rediculous.

I'm not asking for the gold cap to be removed entirely. 2-5 times what we have now should do the trick. At this point I would be happy if they just increased our xunlai chest cap. I could then deal with bypassing the trading cap at my leisure. Although, the fact that we use ectos/whatever to bypass the trading cap makes me wonder. If we bypass the cap by other means all the time, why even have it? Why even have a gold cap at all?

Some say that the gold cap keeps inflation down. But, I'm not convinced. Goldsinks like merchant items(Lockpicks, ID/Salvage kits), crafting materials, Armor, and 9 rings sink alot of gold as it is. Should be more than enough to keep inflation down, only Anet knows for sure(if they know).

EDIT

Quote:

We all take a risk when we buy ectos/armbraces/zkeys. They are not forms of currency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Is there a reason you're saying this, or are you just inserting a claim and hoping it doesn't get questioned?

Quite the contrary. The fact that we use ectos/whatever instead of gold should be questioned.